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When saying the pledge, I leave out "under god." - A Suburbs Boy Living a Country Life [Pete and Pam's pages (photos and some commentary)] [Pam's journal] [Our company] [My Flickr Photos] [Arisia]
November 19th, 2007
10:29 pm

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When saying the pledge, I leave out "under god."

We had the first "real" 4-H meeting tonight.  It's not a big hall.  We all stood up to say the Pledge of Allegiance.  My voice projects; I've always been a believer that if you're going to "pledge" to something then you should say it like you mean it.

So we're cranking through the pledge and I just drop a beat of silence for the two words I find offensive.  The dB in the room drops dramatically for that moment.  One of the high-school kids looked at me as if she'd never heard someone skip the words which turn the pledge into a prayer.  [In case you don't know, the phrase "under god" was inserted in 1954.]

I guess she'll just have to get used to it.

Current Mood: crankycontrary

(20 comments | Leave a comment)

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From:catskillmarina
Date:November 20th, 2007 04:01 am (UTC)
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Good for you ! Even better for you in keeping everything positive.

We always feel compelled when it comes to the pledge and especially the
"under god" part and admire people who resist things that rub them the
wrong way.


--- Miri of Mtribe
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From:dcseain
Date:November 20th, 2007 04:16 am (UTC)
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I'd not encountered the under god version until i got to middle school, and i've omitted those words ever since i found out they were there.
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From:lonebear
Date:November 20th, 2007 04:26 am (UTC)
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Happy to know i'm not the only one who says the original.

Once in a while I get asked about it, and I let the questioner know that it was not in the original, and the author did not want it inserted.
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From:puskunk
Date:November 20th, 2007 05:15 am (UTC)
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I leave it out also. Gotten some funny looks.
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From:vettecat
Date:November 20th, 2007 05:21 am (UTC)
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Good for you!
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From:tessercat
Date:November 20th, 2007 05:33 am (UTC)
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....but how else are we to set ourselves apart from the godless Commies?

yup, that was the argument that lead to adding it. Silly.
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From:mattblum
Date:November 20th, 2007 05:48 am (UTC)
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I, for one, have always thought it a bit silly to be pledging allegiance to a flag in the first place. I have allegiance to the country and the ideals represented by the flag, but for the flag itself? I also think that enforced rote recital of the pledge hinders any purpose it may have had--seriously, how many people who say the pledge give its content much real thought?

Incidentally, though I'm rarely in a situation where people are saying the pledge, when I do I either do just as you do or simply don't bother saying the pledge at all.
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From:geminigirl
Date:November 20th, 2007 06:49 am (UTC)
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Your comments remind me of this book-I saw the movie version when I was far too young to really grasp the scope of what was going on,and read the book when I was older.
From:chesuli
Date:November 20th, 2007 07:11 am (UTC)
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From:technoshaman
Date:November 20th, 2007 07:47 am (UTC)
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The Boy Sprouts have their knickers in a knot about a lot of things.

Ironically, the girls... have no such issues that I know of.

Hopefully, 4-H doesn't either.
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From:happypete
Date:November 20th, 2007 01:41 pm (UTC)

Yes...

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That's one main reason why this Eagle Scout/Vigil order member and his son are "4-Hers" now. The 4-H is explicitly sponsored ultimately by the USDA, but more specifically through the state and county extension offices. It is completely non-discriminatory, and says so in its chartering documentation.

I think I've posted else-journal about the falling out with the Scouts and the UUA that led my father to resign his District Commissioner post and me to eschew Scouting for Quinn and me.
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From:admiral_jc
Date:November 24th, 2007 06:03 am (UTC)

Re: Yes...

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I went through much the same thing... I would be curious to see that link if you cared to share it. The only scouting group available when I went to College was a Mormon one and it didn't feel right to me. Some time later, I discovered that I no longer really felt comfortable with the direction the organization was going and just let it go its own way... with a touch of sadness.

I often tell people that it is funny... many of the things I learned in Scouting... particularly the part about standing up for yourself and what you believe in and not being a prejudiced asshole... are things that would get me tossed out in a heartbeat.
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From:gonzy317
Date:November 20th, 2007 03:29 pm (UTC)
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HEHEHEHE!! We're in scouts, more for the community involvement than anything, and we don't go to church, I definitely DO NOT believe in organized religion under ANY circumstance, and feel my children, when they are older, will decide for themselves if they wish to belong to a particular religion or not.

That said, we don't get any of the 'religious' badges/etc. from scouts. I think scouts have a lot of good qualities: that is not one of them!!!!

I think I would much rather be involved in 4H (I was as a kid) thank scouts (which I've become extremely disenchanted with) but can't seem to convince my (highly religious baptist) husband (who grew up in the city!) that 4-H rocks. I can't see him help my children to raise a goat or a pig! Such a shame. Makes me want to move back to the farm. *sigh*
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From:prettypammie
Date:November 22nd, 2007 02:46 am (UTC)
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There are non-livestock projects; at Grandale they can do food service projects, revive a pond habitat, or do a photography project.
Maybe J wants to come hunting with happypete? My MIL is constantly laughing at her city boy up in the tree with his muzzleloader!

-P
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From:amylgam
Date:November 20th, 2007 08:48 pm (UTC)
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It's even worse when your kid does it.

My Wolf scout declared to me a couple of weeks ago that he doesn't believe in god. Last year we had to get an OK at the council level for my (atheist) husband to even accompany him to meetings (as our pack-level chair was completely freaked by the idea).

So, the next week he led the pledge at the pack meeting, and very obviously shut his mouth into a thin line at that point in the pledge.

I was really hoping to stay under the radar with the scouts this year. Looks like that may not happen.

It is really bizarre, because every parent that I talk to in person about the BSA's rules about atheists and agnostics are shocked, shocked that they would even imply that they shouldn't be scouts. When I point out the line in the registration form about "the best kind of citizens", they all admit that they didn't read the darn thing, just signed it. Especially, you see, because Buddhists! can get their religion awards.

The one parent that caused the kerfuffle last year did it all over e-mail. He and his son never even showed up at a meeting.
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From:happypete
Date:November 21st, 2007 12:24 am (UTC)

The test appears to be...

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...whether you acknowledge some form of deity.

Only atheists
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From:amylgam
Date:November 21st, 2007 06:38 am (UTC)

Re: The test appears to be...

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Right, the Buddhist award was created for the American branch of Jodo Shinchu (sp?), which is a branch of Buddhism that believe in the saving power of the Buddha of Infinite Light, who will bring you to enlightenment after you die.

So, as theistic as a religion generally thought of as non-theistic can get, I suppose. Close enough for scouts, anyway.

I did check into other organizations--4-H, YMCA Guides, Campfire. In our area they were just not logistically viable for us. Being a Scout parent is very bizarre for me, though. Everyone, personally, that I have met has been 100% supportive. The council wrote us an apology letter for all the crap that happened last year. Where are these people who have such a huge problem?

When they were having the older scouts co-ordinate parking for the local Veteran's Day fair, there was one older guy who said he wasn't paying his $2 because he didn't agree with the Boy Scouts' systematic character judgements of people based on their religion and their sexuality, and he shouldn't have to support the scouts to show his patriotism on Veteran's Day. I let him park for free.
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From:jdotmi
Date:November 20th, 2007 12:30 pm (UTC)
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I skip those words, too. And when I was growing up, one of my classmates was a Jehova's Witness and she just sat at her desk with her legs crossed looking terminally bored and annoyed when the rest of the class would stand up to do the pledge. And it wasn't just some polite little girl being obedient to her parents, either. Her posture was a big giant "f- this nonsense" pose.
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From:dindin
Date:November 20th, 2007 02:58 pm (UTC)
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Nice.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:November 22nd, 2007 03:18 am (UTC)
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[In case you don't know, the phrase "under god" was inserted in 1954.]

Why not go for originalism with the 1892 version? Steampunk is the big thing these days...

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

-rs


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